Depending on who you ask, there are anywhere between 10 and 1000 submissive men for every dominant woman out there. That’s complete and utter bullshit. Here’s why.
First, let’s define some terms. For the purpose of this post I’m calling people who are interested in power exchange in terms of giving up control/authority/the right to make certain decisions ‘submissive’ and people who are interested in kinky play that can look like power exchange but not interested in giving up control ‘bottoms’. On the other end up the spectrum, I’m calling people who are interested in power exchange in terms of receiving control/authority/the right to make certain decisions ‘dominant’ and people who are interested kinky play that can look like power exchange but not interested in taking control, ‘tops’. Note that none of those definitions have anything to do with whether a person is involved in the ‘scene’ whether in person or online.
Part of the problem is that there’s the (incredibly fucking stupid) belief in the scene that the more extreme your form of power exchange, the better a kinky person you are. This leads into the idea that if you’re not the slaviest slave who ever slaved, you’re worthless and no dom will even give you the time of day. Because of that, guys who know perfectly well that they’re only interested in bottoming, or only want to submit during defined scenes, feel like they have to call themselves 24/7 TPE submissives to get anyone to speak to them.
There are also people who are just really fucking bad at being submissive. And there are people who watched too much kink porn without doing any research on sites like FetLife and have decided that because the word “slave” gets them all hot and bothered, they must in fact be slaves. And there are people who just aren’t self aware enough to have figured out what they really want, but think the word submissive is hot, so that’s good enough for now.
I firmly believe that the people who say there are X submissive men for every dominant woman are lumping all of those groups together. Now, the distinctions can be fairly fine, as there are as many ways to submit as there are submissive people. Submissive people of any gender are absolutely entitled to ask for what they want, and to get their needs met in a relationship or leave it to look for a better fit. However, there’s a difference between a submissive guy making a request: “it turns me on when you wear black leather boots” and a dominant bottom scripting a scene: “you have to wear black leather boots, they have to have a 4″ spike heel, and then you have to order me to kiss them, no, not like that, you need to sound more commanding…”.
Still, comparing the numbers of bottoms + fetishists + people who suck at being submissive + people who don’t know what they really want + people who really do want to submit and are good at it to the number of exclusively dominant women who are any good at it and not scammers is not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Now, I’m not saying it’s not true that there are more men who identify as kinky than there are women (which is a separate rant), but I highly doubt the odds are as bad as some people think.
Also, it’s not nearly as hard to stand out as people think. For fuck’s sake, not long ago I saw the women of the Submissive men and women who love them go absolutely nuts over a guy who was new to the group. You know what he did? He read the fucking stickies and posted an interesting question. When reading the stickies causes women to play-fight over you, the bar is pretty fucking low.
Guys, the dickbags who post personal ads about how obedient they are in no-personal ads groups are the majority of your competition. If sad bastards like that have set the bar too high for you, it’s not the relative numbers of submissive men and dominant women that are keeping you single.
If there really are 100 submissive men for every dominant woman, where the fuck is my awesome geekboy harem? If awesome submissive men are really that common, there must be tons of them who are right for me. Clearly every dominant woman has so many awesome men in her life that she’d have to give up sleep to have time for any more of them.
For that matter, why is any dominant woman ever single when she doesn’t want to be? Surely she could just snap her fingers and a submissive man would appear in front of her, ready to do her bidding. And if she didn’t like him, she could just go to the next man in line until she found one she clicked with. Should take about a day, maybe two, right?
WRONG.
Awesome submissive men are rare and precious. Awesome submissive men who are just right for a given dom are even rarer. I know a bunch of submissive men who are great friends and great people, but aren’t right for me personally.
Speaking of submissive male friends, my friend Kadri was nice enough to give me some stats on our local community. He tells me that in his experience there are only about twice as many exclusively submissive men as there are exclusively dominant women. Our city may not have the exact same ratios yours does, and if you live in a particularly small town you’re going to have a hard time finding any other kinky people, let alone kinky people you’d like to date, but at a ratio of 2:1 the odds aren’t exactly insurmountable.
Another very interesting thing Kadri told me was that there are actually more women who top sometimes (if not necessarily very often) than there are men who bottom sometimes (again, if not necessarily very often). Apparently the ratio of not-exclusively-submissive women to not-exclusively-dominant men is about 3:2. However, most of the women who are interested in topping at least some of the time keep quiet about it because they don’t want to be swarmed by all the desperate submissive (or “submissive”) guys out there.
It’s true that these stats are just for one city, and no doubt you are a special snowflake who lives in a dead zone as far as dominant women go, but I think they point to the odds generally not being all that terrible. It’s not even about “the odds” anyway. You only need to find one woman who’s right for you and who you’re right for. She won’t be “used up” by some other guy because she’s a person, not a fucking commodity you can run out of.
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for this post. I get so tired of guys telling me I have it easy just because a) I’m female and b) I’m dominant. NO, I am not able to get laid whenever I want, and NO, I’m not surrounded by a throng of submissive men waiting for me to choose one of them to do my bidding.
I’d be willing to bet the ratio of submissive men to dominant women is in fact 1:1. It just looks like 9:1 because a lot of budding dommes don’t identify as such* and a lot of guys identify as submissive when they’re not**.
*Everyone knows dominant women wear corsets and spike-heeled boots and bark orders all the time, right? So clearly a softspoken chick who favours jeans and t-shirts can’t possibly be dominant, no matter what kind of debauchery she fantasizes about.
**Most of them just want to fuck a chick who wears corsets and spike-heeled boots and maybe gets on top once in a while.
This just in: being female and dominant does not actually make everything easy all the time! Details at 11. It makes me so sad that this probably is news to a lot of people.
The female who seeks female domination is always left out of this kind of discussion. I am straight but love some female domination from time to time but find it very hard to find, Guys sem to find it ok,,so what about ME LO,,,
I want to write a want ad for a woman like you. Would you have any suggestions as what to say. I am well educated, nice looking, in excellent physical shape. I was hoping to crest a conversation for a D/s or FLR relationship. I am just not quite sure how to state it. Thanks
Well first of all, you write a personal ad hoping to attract people like her, not a want ad. She’s not a fucking car, she’s a person.
Second of all, you probably just want to find some porn because there aren’t actually that many women who just want to be a living porn show for some dude. You may find a submissive woman who likes being entertainment, but dominant women who will do that are few and far between (read practically non existent, we do not exist to entertain you).
To start you will have to suck my toesif you want a question answered
Regarding a dominant woman in jeans and T-shirt…..
It seems that there is a dress code based on stereotypes. (Pro-domme stereotypes?) Stereotypes imposed from without.
I don’t see any problem with a Domme who favors street clothes. Being truly dominant must be a states of mind-rather than conforming to a stereotype.
I agree I prefer seeing a women regular clothes, leather corsets, and the sort just scream dominatrix to me. I am not looking for a dominatrix if I was there are plenty of dungeons around I can pay someone to act out some fantasy.
I agree that the notion that a woman has it easier is absurd. I have talked to a few different women a Fetlife that say that it is hard for them to find true submissive men that want to serve them and have a real relationship because they get flooded with messages from men that just give them a list of fetishes they want the women to perform for them.
“Most of them just want to fuck a chick who wears corsets and spike-heeled boots and maybe gets on top once in a while.”
YES THANK YOU. THIS EXACTLY.
She can wear cotton pajamas for all I care. But I can see where some bottoms want or appreciate the visual references and symbology of authority, just as some tops want certain submissive visual cues.
You’ll find that REAL Dominant Females are not “chicks.””Chicks” are submissive Females. REAL Dominant Females are also FEMINISTS and they don’t use derogatory terms to describe themselves.
I crave to be your toy Mistress.I beg you please start my training to be your totally obedient slave as cruelly and viciously as you would desire.Please I beg you humiliate me.I am kneeling writing this nude and rockhard.I beg to wear your collar to feel my thigh branded marking my body as yours to abuse as you desire.
no1curr
Very nice
First off you must not a option must let me start by peeing on you while you beg for more your answer ‘YES MISTRESS SISSY”
You may not be able to get laid at the exact moment by the exact guy whenever you want, but, compared to guys, your sex life could be a buffet if you want it. Guys have it 1000x harder than women, period.
No, this is not true (says someone in her 20s with a conventionally attractive body^^).
Yeah, it must be really hard to be afraid of being overpowered/raped/killed by potential partners, and to know that if you get raped you’ll be blamed for it because what were you doing going home with someone you didn’t know that well, and to worry about getting pregnant, and to be aware that you have a higher chance of getting an STI from PIV than your partner does. And it must REALLY suck that when you get over all of those fears and go have sex with someone, a whole lot of the time they don’t pay any attention to what you want or like and you don’t get to orgasm.
OH WAIT THAT’S WOMEN I AM THINKING OF WOMEN.
And even if those practical issues weren’t a consideration, women still get rejected. Plenty. It is not the smorgasbord dudes seem to assume it would be. Turns out guys have preferences in a partner, too. Turns out guys also sometimes have scheduling issues. Or talk a good game but are chickenshits when it comes down to actually meeting up.
I had about a five-year span once where I actively sought a FWB – just a reasonably cute guy who would come over on a regular basis and satisfy my needs.
Such a low bar, and I’m pretty hot by most people’s reckoning and also fun as hell in bed, so you’d think this would not have been a problem. Ha! You would not BELIEVE the friggin’ ordeal it was. Guys who didn’t even respond to my initial message on dating sites; guys who agreed to meet but then flaked; guys where I talked to them a bit online and then basically said “let’s meet up for coffee and if we still seem to get along okay we can go back to my place” and they kept hemming and hawing and postponing, that one guy who put up a Craigslist ad that he wanted to lose his virginity and we met for coffee and at the end of it I asked to kiss him and he gave me his CHEEK and then literally ran away from me and I never heard from him again.
It was frustrating at the time. In retrospect it’s kind of hilarious. Until some dumbass tells me that my own lived experiences can’t possibly have happened because Women Can Get Sex Whenever We Want.
You girls keep saying stuff like buffet and smorgasbord. 5 of you line up, that’s what I want for my last meal. Feel free to get back in line after. I’d be in no rush! ????
Go to a party. Put 5 single, average looking, heterosexual men in a room with 1 single average looking heterosexual female. Give them all a few drinks. If the female says “I want to fuck all 5 of you right now”, It’s a sure thing that at least 3 out of 5 of those men will end up fucking her. Probably 5 out of 5.
Now, do the opposite. Put 5 single, average looking heterosexual females in a room with 1 single, average looking male. If the male says “I want to fuck all of you right now”, he would most likely end up wearing 5 drinks, a few bruises , and a damaged ego from rejection.
And this, is why a double standard exists.
http://www.notjustbitchy.com/women-can-get-laid-any-time-they-want/
Point taken :))
JUSTIN TRUDEU OR JUSTIN BIEBER DOESN’T HAVE THAT PROBLEM.Why don’t guys out there use these people as role models?
YES! Your entire post is spot-on. I remember reading Bitchy Jones talking about this and thinking: My God, the scene STILL hasn’t changed, years on.
LOL @ your demand for an awesome geekboy harem! 🙂
no i,m disagreed- being dominant for most of dominant women is a lifestyle, a personality that they all have it and interested to be really dominant- because it,s a thing according to their real personality- but most of men who clam they are submissive, actually they are looking for their dreams about sex – in fact there is a little real submissive man- this is why most of dominant women often uses sexual experiences for such men to force them to be obedient more and more- yes for sexual D/s relationship every dominant woman can make a harem full of boys that are completely nude while have collar around their necks- but a real submissive man who be ready for servitude for his boss not for his sex desires, with loyalty and faithfulness forever,is very rear- loyalty just for one woman for always is the thing that i say it love-
i will own a slave soon. this is the first time i venture into a foreign lifestyle my friends feel is perfect for me. from my correspondence with him, i know i will love it. but i am afraid of screwing up. i know he likes to be locked up when i dont need him, he likes to be dragged on his knees with me wearing leather. he likes me to dig my heel in his neck, make him suck it etc.. i dont know how to reward him when he’s done good or if i should. how should i punish him. if i have sex with him, is that ok. please help
thanks
eve
First of all, it’s totally normal to be afraid of screwing up. All of us feel that way when we start out, when we try something new, when we start playing with someone new, etc.
If you want to reward him, I’d do the things you just listed that you know he likes. If you don’t like the guy enough to do nice things for him now and then, you probably shouldn’t make him your slave. As for punishment, some people do it and some people don’t. I’m not especially interested in punishment, but Ferns has an interesting post about the way she does punishment that might help.
Oh god, I have a whole post ridiculing the idea that it’s not okay for dominant women to have sex with their subs/slaves. If you both want to, go for it! Anyone who tells you there’s a right or wrong way to be dominant is a jerk who’s trying to manipulate you into doing things their way.
Almost forgot, there’s a ton of great information on fetlife in groups like Submissive men and women who love them. Novices & Newbies is good too.
Don’t forget to sit down and discuss areas of torment & pleasure. Seems like 2 adults could do that. No?
I couldn’t have said it better, a wonderful piece of writing. Thanks for sharing!
There are dominant women and I have met a few but never had the type of relationship I wanted with one, long term. I do think there are more submissive males than dominant females and another issue is that some of the dominant women don’t find sub males sexually attractive. There are also dominant women who are just not dominant in the bedroom or in the certain way that submissive is looking for so all around it can be hard to find someone like if you are looking for a Zoroastrian in Minnesota you are going to have a difficult time. But overall men are interested in sex first and women love first IMO. My biggest gripe is that the dominant women don’t seem to initiate contact.
I’m a Dominant Female and I only date submissive males.PERIOD.Submissive males are the most attractive guys out there!JUSTIN TRUDEAU is submissive.THAT’S WHY SO MANY PEOPLE OF BOTH SEXES HAVE THE HOTS FOR HIM.They just don’t realize that he’s actually submissive.So much so that there’s a lot of Canadians that don’t want him running the country because they don’t think he’s strong enough to make the tough decisions needed to run a country.They think that he’s too “nice” to be able to run a country properly.
Dunno… he was the only guy who was able to counteract Trump’s dominant handshake.
But seriously, I might have a lot of criticism on Trudeau, but I give him that he was able to get to PM without the classical austere stoic masculine attitude that you see in most politicians. IDK if he’s submissive or not, but he certainly is open, friendly and expressive.
In reality, everyone has submissive and dominant traits that come out at different times depending on the circumstances that call for it. (ie: taking control of a child about to wander into a busy street vs pulling over for a cop and doing what he tells you to on that same street) It’s part of being human and surviving in this crazy world. Now, when these traits are sexualized or taken to extremes, it’s a highly individual and varied experience for those involved. When blanket terms are thrown on complex subjects, misconceptions are born. No one can fully describe your personality, tastes, inner thoughts, feelings, creativity or intelligence levels by putting you into ONE category. (‘human being’, for example) The term ‘submissive’ and ‘dominant’ are fluid terms that encompass such a wide variety of attitudes, actions, beliefs and styles that I, personally, would like to see those terms redefined as tendencies rather than absolutes. No one can survive being 100% one way 100% of the time…you’d end up either dead or in jail. Honestly, that would get boring, too. In order to have a power exchange, there has to be an imbalance, yes, but enough on one side to actually give back to the other side in order for the exchange to take place. Otherwise, it’s stagnant, impossible to maintain and unrealistic. The idea that ‘submissive’ men outnumber ‘dominant’ women or vice versa isn’t even the point. (Not dissing the article…it’s well written and an important subject to explore) However, the subject of BDSM has been marginalized by society because of the idea that it isn’t ‘normal’ behavior, when in fact, these traits are normal to everyone, just in varying degrees. Find someone you can love (if that’s what your looking for) in a healthy, neutral way and let the power exchange be a fluid, realistic experience. Extreme fantasies are for the mind and the reason why they don’t work in reality is because they’re not realistic to begin with. Duh…that’s why they’re called ‘fantasies’.
I am a submissive man, and not a bottom. In fact, I’m so submissive that I thought it was a typo at first when I was reading the difference between what a submissive man would say verses a bottom. I thought the first phrase sounded too demanding! I didn’t tell my wife very much about my desires for years because I felt that it was irrelevant. I felt too greedy to even mention my desires, much less ask for them, or god forbid demand them.
I was able to meet here very quickly and we now have a wonderful life together. I know several other female Domme, but I don’t think I have ever met another man who was submissive like I am. Bottoms – yes, but not submissives.
There is something foundmentally wrong with your post and analysis. There is a massive pheonmea going on in the dating scene that if a woman doesnt find what shes looking for, then its mens fault. It is mens fault if she doesnt have a relationship , or if the relationship goes wrong. Your post, sadly, isnt an execption.
I have had dated more than 15 different girls and had sex with them all. I can assure you that none of them, NONE of them had any dominate tendecies whatsoever. Most of them were boring in bed, not kinky, and didnt see themselves playing power exchange. Why ? because women have way more options that men in the dating scene, as a result women dont see the need of developing any skills to satesify their men. In simple words, they bring nothing new to the table. The only ones that do are usually the fat or old ones because they think they need to be kinky to make up the deficiencies they have.
I have been to Fetlife, and i know the group you mentioned. Ive gone to many sites of kinks. You lost credibility in my book by not mentioning those what-so-called dom women who only want” financial dominance.” or those who have absolutely no kinky skills, and just amature who wear strap-ons and act like they are real dom. Or maybe those lesbians who act like they are dom to just sell their sessions.
There is plently of men out there who want a real dominance relationship with a real dominate woman. I want something way deeper than sex. because, unlike what women think, sex isnt always just a physical pleasure to men. Its also mental and emotional.
In summary, ask yourself , if theres a lot of dom women out there, then why dont they initate and hunt down for their sub slaves? why do they wait for us men to follow them around?
And to the first poster, I find it hard to believe that you cannot get sex any time you want.
Your ability to spell is rivalled only by your awareness of the reality of women’s lives, good sir.
I find it hard to believe 15 women slept with you, based on your attitude, and by extrapolation, your personality. Why should dominant women chase us around like puppies, if she wants us to be the puppies? Lady Guinevere didn’t go looking for Sir Lancelot. She didn’t sing his praises, or get on her knee. He did all that. Even if women could get sex any time they want, can your mind wrap itself around the issue that they’re looking for SATISFYING sex, not just sex? We can get plenty of gum under subway seats, and plenty of food from a dumpster. See the analogy? Let’s talk about the simple fact that sex is ALWAYS going to be satisfying for the man. We’ll fuck an armpit or an oily knee, and run around like a giddy kid with a firehose. That’s a mere matter of pressure and friction and speed. Try reading a book like Human Sexual Response, or Cosmo, or more of the blogs and comments on this delicious site. Read to learn and understand though, not to refute. Don’t berate the very women who you reputedly revere and cherish. A disgruntled whiny sub isn’t very sexy, although they probably find it fun to make you more disgruntled and whiny. Respect, my good man, mutual respect.
I love to read people’s perspectives on things like this; because you’re right, there’s such a spectrum of kink there’s no way to just have one category to put every sub in. Im a sub male, and I was born this way… More than just a sexual urge, it is built into the way my brain thinks. I’ve known since I was about 12 years old when my body started to shift for puberty when my submissive reoccurring dreams shifted to sexually submissive dreams. A 12 year old doesn’t understand submissive; I thought I was gay, and scared and not knowing what to do Id try and get excited thinking about gay thoughts and I happily felt that it wasn’t that. My point here is that to compare someone like me who’s loved BDSM on a daily basis since I was 15. I know who I am, I love who I am, it’s far from the easiest, but I have changed my entire life as I gained self awareness and honesty as I grew.
Today I’m in my early 30’s, a psychology major, and I talk to people about BDSM from an educational standpoint on a daily basis. I believe we will never get past a very rough estimate on the ratio of sub men to Female Dominants. As time goes by society is becoming less judgmental, people can allow their self to accept who they are much easier. For example: you can have two identical boys… One grows up in a Christian family, and grew up in the south in a small town where everyone knows everyone. The other in Los Angeles, with a bisexual aunt, diversity all around them, and in a big city (this is import because if you can reach out to someone who can’t hurt you bc they don’t know your circle of friends opens your willingness to open up to them). Obviously the second boy would act on these feelings sooner, be more willing to talk about them, and in turn figure out who they are sooner. In many cases that first Christian boy, with bible thumping morals would never allow his self to fully let go and suppress those thoughts subconsciously and consciously.
There is an enormous list of factors that are almost always impossible to take all into consideration… Morals, self awareness, siblings, access to Internet, race, location, religion, age, all these things and soo many more will slow, stop, or speed up the process of self awareness of who these people are… Then things like testosterone levels, contentment in previous relationships, or being in an LTR and if she’s open try any of your new fantasists… Will control how fast you will get pushed through this.
I used those examples because most people that I break apart their relationships are in their 30’s. They don’t have a clue what there sexual preferences are but they know they aren’t satisfied with what they have been doing. When I break down reasoning to a 40 year old manly man and show him where’s he’s submissive or how his brain secretively loves the pain from cuckolding… As you can imagine seeing this light that his pride tries to block, is hard for him. And he would never admit it in your sample.
If you look at the development between a Domme to a sub.. A typical teaching/student relationship would require the Domme to be more experienced than the sub (by no means always)… But this makes sub males that developed early seek older Dommes to get that experience. This causes subs from say the 20’s to seek for a Domme in say the later 30’s or 40 years old. Same thing with subs in the 30’s may push a for a few years older because of experience, as well as a subconscious search for a boss role feels more natural to seek older.
There’s 100 more pages that can be written from everything from DNA causing woman to be maternal and it’s effects as people mature, to people in BDSM for a “thing they try” vs “born this way”
Maybe not 1:100 but the pool sure is smaller, less accepted, and it adds so many variations of submission to find that perfect match just went from a needle in a haystack, to a needle in a haystack field…
@Girlztoy-That was a very articulate, well thought out reply. It shows you’re educated as you claim, and provides insight to others that read this article and the posts. I am a female dominant, and I and initiating contact with you. I am on Fetlife as well, under the nickname saje069, and would enjoy speaking with you further.
I am searching for an online Mistress to dominate me mentally and reduce me to her sextoy. I submit my will my choices my dignity to your cruel punishing ways.I so beg to be put in utter servitude to your lusts.Please take full charge of my mind my thoughts my sexual rights my right to cum.I pledge to only cum at your command.Teased denied I will sink even deeper into your enslavement.
Slave douglas
Fuck off and take your shitty form letter with you.
Ooh, I just vomited in the back of my throat a little. WTF does your outcry spam ad have to do with the article? Just buy a bumper sticker that says this, you’ll hook up with someone (or something).
I’ve never understood the attraction. Toward ball smashing. But at least now I see its value in society, and where sometimes it’s wholly appropriate for some men.
I wonder how many (potentially submissive) men end up married to vanilla women? Try to make her happy, and make the best of a frustrating situation?
Oh man! I had never thought of that! That is… sort of sad, ain’t it?
Well at least one. I personally HATE that I’m a submissive male. It disgusts me, it has stood between me and a satisfying sex life, and is just socially damn inconvenient. I’ve spent most of my life trying to suppress, escape, or just avoid it. I have and still do things to try and prove to myself that I’m NOT; that despite that nature I’m as hard as a man can be. Well, at least I’ve proven to myself that I’m as tough as any one out there, that I’m certainly no coward or wimp.
I also grew up Christian, and I think that has A LOT to do with it – you’re either straight-vanilla and only like sex to make babies (what a stupid fucked up belief), or you’re a filthy craven queer. It was very confusing when I was younger and didn’t quite know myself, especially because I’ve been hit on and complimented by gay men throughout my life. Unfortunately for all involved I’m quite sure men aren’t my thing. I’m also not into the ‘scene’ – the leather and spike aesthetics don’t appeal to me.
Yet I still crave humiliation, and to be thoroughly used in the female role during sex. This has caused quite a bit of tension in my marriage. My wife who is very supportive and has helped me become much more accepting of it and myself still cannot stomach it. We have come to terms with it and decided that I should try and find what I need outside of the marriage, but how the hell do I integrate that into an otherwise great relationship, especially with children involved?
There’s NOTHING WRONG with you being sexually submissive.SUBMISSIVE GUYS ARE THE HOTTEST GUYS OUT THERE.I’M A DOMINANT FEMALE AND I ONLY DATE SUBMISSIVE MALES.
Wow there’s a lot of resistance to the idea that women/dominant women could have it difficult! I can completely see why. I’m a very frustrated guy in the same position and have been carrying a lot of the same “women have no idea” thoughts in my mind as well.
However, when I take a look at myself, the only thing I can say for sure is that I’m frustrated and hurt. I see people hook up around me – guys that aren’t half as conscious as I am, or half as smart, hooking up with all sorts of women. I’m only 30 but it’s been so long since I’ve gotten to experience that myself that I feel a lot older.
So I understand the frustration. And I think it’s that frustration that is making it impossible for folks to see that others may have their own frustrations too. When you hurt bad enough, it fills your vision.
And I think it’s there, in that hurt, that men have it roughest. Dominant and/or masculine women may not be the norm, but they’re generally much more acceptable in our society than submissive and/or feminine men. The dominant woman is just seen as a strong side of the feminine – a woman leader. A submissive man on the other hand is seen as a weak pussy (just look at how “submissive” men default to groveling type behavior – as if that’s what it MEANS to be submissive). Submissive men feel a special and extremely strong pang of loneliness because they tend to isolate themselves to protect themselves from a harsh, constantly judgmental society that sees them as inferior and defective.
So ya, both genders have their frustrations. As a bottom/submissive/something in between type guy, I feel beaten down and helpless (in the negative way) and despair of finding anyone that shares a mutual interest in a relationship that satisfies what I need.
Oh, and I guess I should point out that larger women and many non-white/Asian women probably have some considerable difficulties as well – and probably go through quite the loneliness.
A lot of guys could easily get laid if they drastically lowered their standards, but they won’t, just as (most) dominant women aren’t going to lower their standards to date some groveling, desperate guy that copy/pastes some nonsense about how he’s already your eternal slave even if he’s never met you. Women want authenticity just as much as men want physical health. This is something that is changeable (unlike being a black woman or 6’2″ woman) – become a more conscious, aware individual and not just another groveling sheep.
I had a great experience recently, and immediately thought about this post. A man on a dating site asked (after obviously reading my profile) who my favorite Dragon Age character was and then named his favourites. I was like: “IM YOURS What do you want: my phone number? Sex? Relationship? THIS IS THE BEST GUY EVER! DON’T YOU DARE DISAPPEAR”
Haha, that’s awesome!
The idea that dominant women are butch and rough looking is very misleading. I am bi and have found some of the most dominant women I have met are not just married,but very “house wife, school run Mummy’s”, but once the discover they have a submissive female looking for some domination they change.
Those Dominant Women don’t “change” at all.A REAL DOMINANT FEMALE IS HETROSEXUAL AND SHE ONLY DATES SUBMISSIVE MALES.DOMINANT WOMEN ARE NOT GAY. If you’re a female who wants to be dominated you should either find yourself a dominant master or a bull dyke lesbian.
A REAL DOMINANT FEMALE IS HETROSEXUAL AND SHE ONLY DATES SUBMISSIVE MALES.DOMINANT WOMEN ARE NOT GAY
wat? Plenty of dominant women are lesbians. The idea that either lesbians can’t be doms or doms can’t be lesbians is utterly ridiculous.
Dating sites can be the worst too. I personally always read the profile before messaging. I’m sure men have horrid profiles too, but I’d venture that around 80-90% of women’s profiles are all the same excruciatingly bland and uninformative stuff about “I’m adventurous,” “I like to have fun,” and “I love my friends and family.” It really is a treat to have someone write a decent, interesting profile, and it’s even further awesome that someone read your’s and actually took an interest beyond “hi.” I’m a dude so women rarely initiate contact with me – I’d be beside myself too if an attractive one took an interest.
Being bi I’ve had a taste of both sides (just not so much on dating sites). Nearly all of these problems stem from people, of all genders and orientations, just not knowing what top/bot, dom/sub, and masc/fem flow is supposed to look like, or how to create it. IE, people are unaware, underdeveloped, and aren’t actively doing anything about it. As examples:
-All the top/dom men I’ve been with have been horrible. Never been with a decent top. Most just want a pump and dump. They want to masturbate using my body. This is even after we’ve gotten to know each other a bit. I bring sub energy to the situation (I’ve taken hours to set up a room/myself to make a man’s night before), but they don’t bring any dom energy to the situation at all. Just stick it in, pump for 5 minutes and leave.
-The one dominant woman I’ve been with, as wonderful of a person as she was, was not actually a dominant imo. I think she likes straight, vanilla sex with a top man more. I love her a lot still, as a person, but as a lover she had little idea how to bring dom energy to the relationship.
-I’ve had one experience that was absolutely incredible as far as dom/sub and masc/fem energy…and it’s the one time that I played switch and dommed a girl that I cared about. She knew how to bring submissive energy, and even though it’s not my preference, I know how to bring dominant energy. When folks are aware and know how to bring confidence, honesty, vulnerability, integrity, and self-knowledge into the situation, sparks fly.
-I guess my last point is to say it starts with dominants. Sorry it’s just the truth! Dominants set the tone, submissives flow with it. But it takes courage and self-understanding for everyone to play their part. It takes intelligence and effort to make relationships satisfying for both people. Now I just need to find my dominant that does all of this like I do!
Btw, Morrigan rules.
(Sorry I’m so wordy, this stuff can just be hard to explain – plus I’m rambling and somewhat off-topic to the original post, I just find this stuff so damned fascinating)
I think my point in my post here is that if everyone is doing it right – creating maximum dom/sub flow and maximally awesome experiences for both parties – then everyone is a service top or service bottom. Let me explain.
The best subs are the ones that: 1) go out of their way to please their dominant partner, but 2) place their complete trust in their dominant partner.
Likewise the best doms are the ones that: 1) take the time to enjoy the pleasant things their submissive partner does, but 2) uses their power and control to reward their partner.
#1 for both is about the flow of service from submissive to dominant. It’s truly invigorating to see my dominant partner bask in the glory of their own pleasure when I do things for them. Their power and desire are incredible.
#2 is the flow of service from dominant to submissive. If you’ve never seen the awe in a submissive’s eyes as you use your dominance to bring them, in sex and the relationship both, to the heights of complete, utter trust as well as their pleasure, then you’re missing out on a really satisfying part of being a dominant! The beauty of a sub that completely trusts you to have their best interests at heart can easily bring you to tears.
So ya, all relationships are really receive and give. Service runs both ways in a cyclical flow. It feels pretty damned good when it does too.
wow!!!
While I’d love to volunteer to be a member of this geekboy harem of yours, I’m way to clingy to make it in a harem
I am a man and I care more about the love (emotional side of a relationship) than sex….hell my last relationship was about 2 years long but I am still a virgin. so yea, not all men are after sex….sure it would be nice but it is not a necessity
Side note: I found my true love. We work so well together. I wan’t no one else but her (so don’t ask) If she dies I will never be with anyone else…. so please don’t try to hit on me or get me because it won’t work.
I really like your take on this because I strongly sense that you wrote from the heart; creating a unique feel that I personally agree with almost entirely. I am a married transvestite with a pretty tolerant wife of her husband’s kinky and erotic love for anyone that is feminine in demeanor in her public life, but becomes a women who has grown to love topping her husband who she rides until he cums and she tells him to lick every drop of cum from her pussy as she straddles his face.
All of this is done with love and respect, or more or less female domination lite.
We didn’t arrive their like that, but grew and continued to evolve; as I go through “phases” where my sexual preferences and feelings of gender are like Forest Gump’s box of chocolates. We haven’t had anyone else participate with our sexcapades, but have a question…
I think other similar couples would work fantastic, with the gals either participating or telling her bottom husband to “be gay for her”. So although cucks greatly outnumber the demand from women seeking guys like that, what I just described is similar to what you wrote about so I thought I’d throw in for your pleasure,
Nice insight:))
Actually… today I received a mail from OkCupid with some kink interest stats:
https://theblog.okcupid.com/bdsm-is-more-popular-than-you-think-890de1c634f1
Around 10% women with interest in taking control, ~22% men with interest in partner taking control. Might not be the best data to characterize the kind of attitude towards D/s you are talking about here but.. general pop data is hard to come by and for all purposes this is more than enough to take down the myth.
I’m a Dominant Female who HAS to be in control in a relationship.There’s no other way for me.
I’m a Submissive Male. Nice to meet you.
How would you know if the guy is submissive from the first date? Or how would you find a submissive partner?
You know, I – a woman, am seeking a Female Led Relationship, very early thirties and in search of a wholly submissive man. Online dating profiles seem to attract the very ‘submissives’ I wouldn’t dream of entertaining- those this article has captured so well, therefore am using this medium for a one off search. Will it work? Highly unlikely, but if it does now there’s a story to share.
You know, that’s a really interesting idea. I can call some more attention to your comment with a minipost with a link or something if you want, I’m curious how this experiment will go. Good luck!
Not a problem Stabbity, it’ll definitely expand the reach so please do. I most certainly will communicate the results, if positive.
Happy thanks :-).
Hmm can you explain what you mean more clearly? Are you seeking to be the dom, or a middle link of three? If its the later I wonder if we could communicate further. My situation is a bit complicated but that might fit. I’m looking for an additional LTR with someone that is a normal decent human IRL, but able to help with desires I need some outlet for. I am not a groveling gushy slaveboy type. Hopefully you like to fight for control sometimesm
Am not seeking to be a Dom, am already dominant with a monogamous interest only. Control is assumed in a FLR, we fight for nothing.
Forrest, remember when you said that “I personally HATE that I’m a submissive male“? You’ve got some work to do before you start looking for a dom.
We seem to be discussing a very specific aspect of relationships here; the sexual power interaction. Nat states(to paraphrase): “I a female am seeking a flr”. That’s ambiguous. So I ask for clarification.
Nat wants to be a monogamous dominant without contest for that position.. That’s fine – not a match.
Thank you Nat for clarrifying.
The snide response that I am not romantic and possibly selfish are jumping to conclusions that reveal attitudes that further enforce my dislike for what my innate sexual preferences are.
You do not know for example that I am a father of two with a wife who can no-longer provide that role due to medical issues. That means I am often a single dad, caregiver, and bread-winner for my family. She has encouraged me to pursue such a relationship. Why? Because I am a strong, stable, and very supportive partner that has pushed myself to extreme limits to maintain a home for them and earned the privilage to seek what I seem to need despite my difficulty accepting it.
So yeah, I guess I’m a selfish unromantic jerk. Obviously my trepidation to get involved in this sort of community is well justified.
You’ve clearly been dealt a shitty hand by life and that sucks. I really hope you’ll be happy one day. Nothing in your comment has convinced me you’re actually ready to start looking for a dom, though.
It’s a very short jump from “I HATE being a submissive man” to “You’re a disgusting freak for being attracted to submissive men.” I just can’t recommend that anyone sign herself up for that. It’s also not exactly unheard of for self-loathing (or anxious, or insecure) people to want more reassurance than anyone can ever provide. That’s just a bad time for everyone, because it’s pretty much inevitable for the reassurer to burn out and leave, which the self-loather just takes as more evidence that the world sucks instead of realizing that it’s exhausting to reassure someone over and over when they never seem to believe you.
Edited to add: It’s not at all weird for submissive men to have trouble accepting the fact that they’re submissive. I recommend going to the Submissive men and women who love them group on fetlife and asking how other men came to terms with being submissive.
I don’t think you understand why your comment was received with some contempt. I find asking for someone to be “an outlet for some of your desires” to be kind of a douche-y attitude. I’m not saying your desires (whatever they are) are in anyway bad or that you aren’t deserving of fulfilling them. But if you come out telling you are looking for an ‘outlet’, some people might feel you are objectifying them. I know I wouldn’t be happy with being seen like that.
I’m really sorry for what you are going through. You seem like a great guy in a bad situation. But that doesn’t excuse you from talking about other people as means to satisfy your kinks.
Again, the problem is not in your kinks, it’s in your attitude towards them. I suggest you take a breath and take time to rethink what are you looking for and why do you want it.
Wish you well and hope you find your way to happiness.
Yes, thanks I can see your point. I am expressing myself awkwardly and still finding nuances in meanings of roles.
> I’m looking for an additional LTR with someone that is a normal decent human IRL, but able to help with desires I need some outlet for.
How romantic!!
Not to mention “selfless”.
On the flip side, I am a guy that also wants an FLR. If you show that you are submissive and want an FLR on a dating site, you will not receive a response back, or get “women” that contact you wanting you to send them money. I want to be with one person in an actual relationship not a “slave” in her stable that sends her money every week.
Nat, what do you mean when you say “wholly submissive man”? Are you referring to a guy that also wants an FLR or someone that just wants a woman to entertain him?
A submissive in search of a Master to cater to HIS ‘needs’ is in search of Femdom. One who’s focused on the needs, preferences and desires of his Goddess on a 24 hr basis, deriving pleasure only from her happiness is likely seeking a FLR. FLR may or may not include femdom, that is entirely dependent on the Woman. It should be noted that it is NOT necessary to be a dominant woman so to speak, to be involved in a FLR. A submissive can provide support and ‘guide’ his partner in the direction of becoming Leader and final decision maker in the relationship. Not guide her to fulfilling his kinks and fetishes.
My interest is Level 3 and elements of Level 4, all five (5) food groups. You may see aboutflr.com for such details. Am interested in no Alpha subs, nor any with the desire to top from the bottom.
‘Wholly submissive’ – one who’s naturally submissive, embraces it and is selfless- in that his interest is more about pleasing. Mind you, some of these men head organizations and lead teams however, in a relationship this role is naturally reversed ( not by any effort). By extension, this individual respects women in general.
I agree I am not in search of a master to please me. I am looking for a Goddess I can focus on serving. Serving a Goddess is how I get my pleasure. I would be okay with some elements of Femdom, but that is not something I require unless my Goddess wants them. You can never truly serve a Goddess if you try to top from the bottom.
I love the site aboutflr; it has taught me a lot, I have read every article on the site. Level 3 is where I land bordering level 4 with surrendering all of the food groups.
Every article? You should be very well informed. How old are you?
Nat, I am about to turn 27, knowlege is power
AboutFLR :I’m a Dominant Female and I checked out that website but I found certain things about it silly.To begin with they don’t tolerate any kink on that site,which is ABSURD for a FLR website.Also they have a part of the site where they try to “teach” Female Domination.THIS IS IDIOTIC.A FEMALE IS DOMINANT OR SHE ISN’T.ONE DOESN’T HAVE TO TEACH ME HOW TO BE THIS WAY.IT’S JUST THE WAY I AM. I also got the impression that AboutFLR is really just a bunch of vanilla people trying to rake money out of the BDSM scene.
AboutFLR is about one specific type of thing which is that sex seems to be disfavored and men should be chaste. To reply to women you have to buy their material to get “verified.” Some women there do have public emails showing and I wrote to one who felt I wasn’t her type. What I dislike about that type of site is that it says to me that submales are not deserving of having sex with dominant women which is a common theme and one this thread is against.
Experiment?! You piqued my curiosity.
Well.. you don’t leave much to work with. May I ask for some of your interests? What are you currently reading? What podcasts do you listen to? Videogames?
Experiment as in this ‘advert’.
You need not point out “Well.. you don’t leave much to work with”. Simply, ask the questions relevant to you.
Oh yes. I’m sorry. That was not very nice on my part.
Such great insight……………..
I never believe the statistics either. I’ve been a domme my entire life. I’m 33 now. I love skinny, pale, dark haired, very submissive guys (bonus points for glasses) and have only ever met one in real life that was genuinely interested in an S&M style relationship. And he was already taken. Apparently I should be tripping over men like this on dating sites and elsewhere, but I’ve had zero luck meeting them. The ones who message me declaring their undying devotion always end up flaking out or admitting they actually have girlfriends/wives (and I have no interest in sharing – certainly not when I’ve only just met the guy). I don’t limit my search to my local city and I’m more than happy to date up to 18 years older than me if he’s kept his body and hair in decent condition. But still… nothing. So I have to stick to vanilla dating, which never works out in the end as I miss the kinky stuff too much.